ICBC SUCKS
Back in 2005 I was involved in a very MINOR accident. It was mainly my fault and I was prepared to accept the fact, that I would be responsible for fixing the other driver’s vehicle and that would probably be it.
Now, three years later ICBC has settled an injury claim with the other driver for a mere $56,000.00. Car damages amounted to just under $2000.00 on a 2005 Mazda 3. I was driving my dad’s car at the time of the accident, so they have found that we were in breech of his insurance coverage and now ICBC is coming after me for the grand total of $58,000.00.
Not only did ICBC not want to investigate this accident and the so called “injury claims” of the other driver, they decided to settle out of court, and without ever really caring to hear my side of how the accident happened. I suppose that is because of the fact that they were going to pin the whole 58 grand on me.
Now…. I have been in talks with ICBC to arrange some sort of payment plan… as I can clearly not afford to pay them $58,000 all in one lump sum. As a matter of fact, it is going to take me a VERY LONG TIME to be able to pay off $58,000. I was sent an “Income and Assets” form through their “Claim Recovery Department” and was told to fill out all of my monthly income and expenses and send it back to them. Which I did and it clearly showed that I am not able to make huge payments on this amount. In fact, the amount I am able to pay is quite small without having to become homeless or have my children starve. They reviewed the information I sent them and have come to the conclusion that I can make small payments on the $58,000 balance I owe them…. BUT… they will not be able to allow me to insure any vehicle or renew my driver’s license once it has expired because the amount that I owe is so great and the payment that I am able to make is so small. So…. basically ICBC is now penalizing me because I can’t afford to pay an amount which pleases them on a trumped up, over-blown injury claim that THEY decided to award this other driver…. without the opinion of a judge or jury. Am I the only one that thinks that this is not fair? There are drivers that are convicted of vehicular manslaughter who receive driving bans of 2 years, 5 years. There are people who have been caught driving drunk (Gordon Campbell would be a PRIME example) still able to drive on a daily basis. And then there is ME. I make a total of $1600 a month. Out of which I have to pay rent, bills, help to cloth and feed two children and also take care of myself. Now, I am going to be penalized for the rest of my life because of the simple fact that I do not make enough money to afford to pay more of a monthly payment.
ICBC SUCKS!!!!!
June 18, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Maybe I’m missing something, but why do you owe anything beyond the deductible? If your dad’s car was insured, then that is all you owe. Yes, his and/or your future insurance might now cost more per year (or month if you do the monthly thing ICBC now has); but you should owe no more than the deductible because that is the entire point of insurance… you are paying a monthly/yearly premium to insure that if you ever have an accident, the insurance company will have to pay the expenses instead of you.
June 18, 2008 at 2:47 pm
@ Gregg….
Because my dad has some sort of “seniors” (as in over the age of 65) coverage on his vehicle, he is listed as the “principle driver” and I don’t believe his coverage included having some one other than him driving the car. So ICBC has concluded that we are in breech of having coverage, and they are coming directly after me for all expenses, as I was the driver of the car.
Do you know much about ICBC or ways to fight them ……other than spending thousands of dollars in court costs?
June 18, 2008 at 3:42 pm
That sounds awful … and ridiculously unfair!!!
Have you consulted a lawyer about this? I would recommend meeting with someone in-the-know … just to be sure that there isn’t some other way to resolve this issue.
Good luck.
June 18, 2008 at 4:02 pm
@ Tania…..
Yes… it certainly does suck. I did hire a lawyer, back before ICBC made a settlement and the lawyer that I hired was no better. He took $6000 as a retainer after telling me that we’ll try to “keep costs down” (I told him that I didn’t have alot of money and had to take out a loan just to pay the retainer). Well he blew through that $6000 in about 2 months and never even attended one meeting, other than the initial consultation. So…yeah…I did hire a lawyer, but it was a complete waste of my time and money because he did absolutely nothing for me. It would have been better for me to put that 6 grand down on the 58 grand that I now owe.
I did however contact my local MLA today… and they told me that when it is around the time that my driver’s license is to expire, give them a call and they will see what they can do about it. But that is not until October of 2010…so I guess for now it is a waiting game for me.
June 18, 2008 at 4:53 pm
I do have a bit of experience fighting ICBC, but I’m not sure whether there is much you can do there. I’m not sure about what type of insurance you dad had, but one thing I do know about is insuring a car so that a teenager can drive it. Perhaps it’s related. Basically, my wife’s youngest boy lives with their father. The father has to pay extra for insurance that let’s a young driver with his “N” drive the vehicle. We checked into whether we needed something similar for when he visits us (I ended up giving him half his driving lessons), and we found out that if the person doesn’t live with you and will therefore just be an occasional driver, you don’t need the extra insurance.
As for fighting ICBC, within a certain time limit you can appeal any decision and it goes to an arbitration board; meaning that since it’s not going all the way to a court level you could feasibly do it without a lawyer.
June 18, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Well.. thanks for responding. I will have to look into that. I really don’t know where to start though.
June 19, 2008 at 11:57 am
Start here:
http://www.icbc.com/inside_icbc/dispute/how_to.asp
June 19, 2008 at 12:04 pm
and you might also want to check out:
http://icbcsucks.com/forum
June 19, 2008 at 12:05 pm
@ The Mole….
Thanks so much!!!
July 30, 2008 at 12:46 pm
I’m going threw the same I know how it feels you think you are insured until you are a victim.. You have to be an ICBC employee to receive the benefits of any sort of insurance!!!
November 22, 2008 at 1:00 am
DO NOT initiate payments, AFTER 6 years YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY THOSE VAMPIRES a cent.
DO NOT START PAYING THEM< ONCE YOU DO YOU ARE FUCKED
DO NOT EVEN PAY THEM !) BUCKS< AFTER 6 years you will be fine, get a bus pass and a bike, heck get caught driving without a licence even, BUT DO NOT PAY A CENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did, now Im fucked with 20,000
July 15, 2009 at 5:12 pm
My son called ICBC and said he wanted to resolve this issue by trying to arrange very small payments in order to try to get his license back in the future.
This rude collection clerk told him that he won’t get his license back until he pays it all. Nobody can pay back over $900,000.00 and the interest on that amount will take it way over $1 million.
Then she said they can review cases every 6 months and can make a determination if a license can be reinstated. She didn’t say how much a person needs to pay back – a fixed amount of money or a % of the debt.
She was a very snotty bitch and I guess this will continue when getting pestered by a collection agency.
December 27, 2008 at 8:34 am
Try ICBC’s fairness department. I don’t know the phone number but I do beliee there is a link on their website (wasn’t there before) and if not the office is in vancouver. You can call any icbc customer srvc and ask them for the number/or drivers services should have it also.
Have all your info ready and just talk to them. I had a huge problem with ICBC and they went so far as to put a condition on my licence stating that “no one was allowed to even permit a vehicle registered to me” nor was I allowed my to renew my DL or have any insurance product, my name or anothers, on a vehicle registered to me. I fought them for 5 years with no luck and when I called the fairness department it took less than 2 days for them to decide I was right and fix the whole mess.
By that time I had paid them all the money they wanted cuz I had to have my DL but the decision by the fairness dept. also meant I got my money back….and I did!!! They mailed it to an address I hadn’t lived at for years even tho they sent the mad at me mail to my current address….funny how that happened?????
Give it a try and I hope it works.
Also, I happened to see on ICBC’s website their statement that they provide “underinsured motorist coverage” to all who hold a valid BC DL. If they do that then why do we have to buy it and pay for a claim against them? 3rd party liability? Isn’t that what this would be?
July 6, 2009 at 1:21 am
My son smashed up his car and was not covered by ICBC because he had a N license and was drinking. The two passengers submitted their suits to ICBC two years ago and according to the ICBC lawyers, they didn’t have valid claims.
No more correspondence followed until this week, my son received a Claim Recovery collection letter for $898,432.56. One girl had a sprained thumb and the other one had a head injury and recovered and was back to work in 3 months.
The amount these girls got was totally insane. Pure greed on their part and ICBC bought it. They are now out partying and spending this money. People with serious injuries don’t receive that kind of money.
My son cannot pay that amount and I doubt a lawyer or judge could pay that amount within 30 days or even in their lifetimes.
He has not taken this to a lawyer yet because he has no details of the court case. He’s already served a 18 month CSO for this accident and had to pay $1000 for the responsible driver program. It was a waste of money because he will not get his license back.
We are totally pissed !!!
July 6, 2009 at 6:00 am
@ Mad Mother
Oh my gosh, that is crazy!
Although it was obviously wrong for your son to be drinking and driving that does seem a little harsh. From what it sounds like, it seems like they have just gone and settled and there is not going to be a court case. Is this correct?
Obviously the circumstances are different from what happened to me and your son is on the hook for alot more money than me….. but in some ways there are alot of similarities. ICBC does what they want. People fake injuries and say that they are far more worse than there are just to get a pay out and ICBC does not have the balls to stand up to them so they just cave and hand out ridiculous amounts of money. The guy that I BUMPED into received $56000.00 for supposed injuries that occurred from $1900.00 of car damages.
I feel if I would have had the opportunity to go to court the payout would have been ALOT less…. but lets face it the court system and most lawyers are just as bad. If you have to pay for a lawyer out of your own pocket to defend yourself you might as well take out a 2nd mortgage on your house cause that’s what it’s going to cost to do it especially at the rate of speed that the court system and ICBC travel in.
I really want to to be able to stand up to ICBC and say this is bullshit but I don’t know how and I don’t have the money to hire a lawyer. I have a life, I have a mortgage, and I don’t want this screwing up my life because I refuse to pay them so I just pay $20 a month and that keeps them happy…… for now.
I don’t know what to suggest you do for your son. That is a ton of money that he now owes and at such an early point of his life… it will definitely affect him for the rest of his life.
I wish you all the best in fighting ICBC and hope there is a glimmer of hope that your son will come out of this victorious.
July 6, 2009 at 2:47 pm
I agree my son shouldn’t have been drinking when he has a N license. FWIW, he was not over the legal limit but still, it’s zero tolerance and his insurance is null & void.
I see you have also been a victim of greed and it’s horrid that these people fake their injuries. ICBC says they follow people around to see if they’re faking. I think if ICBC is paying the claim for an insured motorist, they may do it but not for money they expect to be repaid by an uninsured motorist.
I agree that lawyers are money grabbers and all they do is show up or not show up and ask for a postponement of a trial. I have to decide if it’s necessary to have a lawyer unless it’s to work out a deal.
I was doing further research and went to the BC Ombudsman website. I see there is a process of first contacting the ICBC Fairness Dept (isn’t that a contradiction in terms) if you feel you have been treated unfairly. If that doesn’t work, then contact the Ombudsman. I’m not sure if this covers disputes in Claim Recovery amounts.
We haven’t got that far yet because my son first has to contact ICBC to let them know he is unable to pay.
Did your lawyer arrange the $20 a month payment or did you arrange it directly with ICBC? Do you receive a bill every month? Are you still denied a license and insurance?
Even if my soon agreed to pay $100 a month (which is $100 too much), it would take over 895 years to pay it off if you add on the interest. If there’s no benefit in getting his license back, is any amount worth paying?
He has no assets and he might as well not work if they decide to garnishee his wages. His credit rating is trash. He is trying to get past this accident and start a new life but there is no incentive to do so.
Neither of these girls drive and I guess they’d rather ride around in other vehicles and sue the drivers.
July 6, 2009 at 3:09 pm
I arranged the $20 a month payment myself with ICBC. They sent me a income and monthly expenses form that I had to fill out all of my income and monthly bills that I pay to show them that I couldn’t afford to pay them much money. Even if I pay $20 a month for the rest of my life there will still be a huge amount of money that will be left owing somewhere in the range of over $40,000.00. So really what is the point? The only reason why I do pay every month is because before this whole thing happened I had cleaned up my credit rating and managed to purchase a house…. and I don’t want them coming after me and trying to take it away or screw me over anymore than they already have.
I am unable to insure a vehicle in my name right now. I do currently have a drivers license, they did not take it away but it does expire in 2010 and it is up to them if I can get it back or not. Supposedly people who owe money to ICBC are not able to renew their license until the money is paid off but I spoke to my local MLA and they told me that if I have proven to them that I don’t make much money and can’t afford to pay very much per month, and have been paying something on the amount every single month on time, then they would help me fight to get my licence renewed if ICBC will not let me. Maybe contact your local MLA, sometimes they can do wonders for cases like this.
If your son has no chance of getting his license back and has no assets then I don’t see much point of paying anything to them. After 6 or 7 years it should go away, off his credit report. Maybe find a lawyer that will give you a free consultation and find out if that is truly the case. If it is then I wouldn’t pay them a cent.
I feel sorry for you and your family for having to go through this but it’s nice to know that I am not alone! Please try to remember to keep me posted on what ends up happening. I would love to hear how ewverything turns out. Are you guys in the lower mainland?
July 6, 2009 at 11:48 pm
after reading through this blog, i did not know something like this can happen in north america. i was recently approached by a friend that this happened to, he was driving without a license, and got into a minor wreck, the parties settled by word of mouth, now few years latter, he gets a letter saying that he owes $159,000, at first i did not want to beleive the story, but after reading this i am convinced that this can actually happen, i asked him to call the BC ombudsperson person(http://www.ombudsman.bc.ca/complaints/how.htm) to see if they can help him, this seems totally unfair, why such ridiculous awards will be made for minor damages, in this case the only damage was to the side mirror, my friend is considering filing for bankruptcy as a way to avoid this levy and still keeping his property, since they are threatening to seize his property, i have not seen the actual letter, but this just seems very unfair, why should people be treated like this.
July 7, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Taraden: we live in the Lower Mainland. My son called ICBC today to say he was unable to pay the debt. He has to call a case worker tomorrow. The ICBC collection letter demanded that this amount be paid in 30 days!
Kade: I’ve spent all afternoon and last night reading the archived reports at the BC Ombudsman site to see if there were similar complaints. There has been nothing dealing with disputing a claim recovery collection. The website says to first register a complaint with the ICBC Fair Practice division.
People try to get as much as they can for personal injury and exaggerate their disabilities. They hire lawyers who get a percentage of the award so they will try to get even more.
We have no transcripts of the trial and didn’t know there was one taking place. The last we heard was two years ago when an ICBC lawyer sent us a copy of a letter telling the two female passengers that they did not have valid claims.
These ladies are NOT disabled due to the accident and are living normal lives while thumbing their noses at my son because they got a huge settlement. I can’t believe a Supreme Court judge ruled that $898,423.56 was justified. Maybe if it was a death claim.
I bet these two ladies were never tailed by a detective.
I was also thinking of the bankruptcy route for my son unless there’s a law that says you can’t declare bankruptcy if there’s a debt owed to a government agency.
My son just finished his Responsible Driver Program and was waiting for an interview with the Sup of MV. Guess that was a waste of $1000. I’ve told him to go ahead with the interview and then he will know where he stands before taking further action.
Your friend and the blog host and my son will never pay off this debt in their lifetime. Their lives are ruined because of greed and lies. They will most likely never have a drivers license again, let alone have a vehicle or get insurance. They are liable to get up to 30% of their wages garnisheed.
I hope your friend gets help from the Ombudsman. We are still gathering up the paperwork.
I know I’m rattling on but I’m hoping that other people will read this blog and see how innocent people are getting screwed.
Hopefully these true events will get the message to N drivers to not drink & drive and to unlicensed drivers to not get behind the wheel.
Please keep us posted and I will update as I find out more.
July 7, 2009 at 8:23 pm
Hi again Mad Mother,
From what it sounds like to me ICBC settled out of court with these two ladies. If there was a court proceeding, I think your son would have been notified. This is the same thing that happened in my case except there was to be a court proceeding but a year before the set court date ICBC settled out of court with the driver and then pinned the price tag on me.
I too doubt that they investigated the two girls, just like they did not investigate the driver in my case as well. I am sure he was out in his yard mowing the lawn, carrying in his groceries and doing all the normal things that he normally did in the past. And I totally think the reason why they don’t is because they have pinned the money on someone else. They don’t care.
Have you tried to contact you MLA?
Thanks for keeping us posted!
July 8, 2009 at 4:28 pm
We were not advised of any upcoming court case or pending out of court settlement until we received the collection letter from ICBC demanding $898,423.56 be paid in 30 days.
I guess there is no notification because the lawsuit is between the “victim” and ICBC.
I agree that ICBC doesn’t exercise due diligence if they figure they are going to get the money from the uninsured motorist. The replies that were first sent to these two ladies from ICBC basically told them they didn’t have valid claims. Then over 2 years later, there is a valid claim and not a small one at that.
ICBC would stand a better chance of recovering some of their money if they denied more claims or at least made the punitive amounts realistic in terms of the ability to have it paid back.
If you look on the Internet, you see all these lawyers posting their pitches that we will get you top dollar on your injury. The lawyers are laughing because they get a percentage of the award and the victim is laughing because he/she is instantly rich.
The public gets outraged due to rising premiums and it’s all due to ICBC handing out money for unjust claims.
Until we gather up more of a history on phone calls and the bullshit that is handed to us, we will hold off trying to seek justice.
In your situation, was your father even asked by the insurance agent if there were other people driving his car? My agent asks me every year and I do take it because it applies to my situation. Can you even prove that your father was asked this question? Is it only heresay? I don’t know if there is a signed clause on the insurance document that says this option was discussed and declined. If not, there should be because if the agent didn’t offer it, then how could your father know about it.
July 8, 2009 at 7:43 pm
I will have to look into my father’s insurance to see if there was a clause or not. But that certainly makes sense.
I can tell you right now that both claims involving my situation and your son’s were totally blown out of proportion. I was involved in an accident about 9 years ago where I was riding my mountain bike on the side of the road and a driver that was driving on a cross street ran a stop sign and caused me to wipe out on my bike. I ended up in the hospital with a lacerated spleen, internal bleeding, and two fractured bones in my left wrist. I had to spend 1 week in the hospital and was very close to having a major operation to have my spleen removed. I could have died from the internal bleeding if I had not gone to the hospital. Luckily after weeks of bed rest my spleen repaired itself. I then had to spend 3 months resting so that I would not reopen the wound on my spleen.
I hired a lawyer because at first ICBC told me that I did not have a vaild claim. My lawyer told me that they would not get paid unless I received a cash settlement. After 3 years, ICBC settled with me out of court for just over $50,000.00. My lawyer took $30,000.00 of that for his fee.
The point being is that my injuries were far worse than wither the girls involved in your son’s incident and far worse than the driver in my incident and I was only awarded $50,000.00. That shows you right there that there is something wrong with the amount these people were awarded. I don’t know how they can justify the amount they have given to them.
July 10, 2009 at 2:20 pm
I just read this in the news. This guy killed somebody and only got a 10 year driving ban.
THIS IS AN OUTRAGE THAT HE GOT OFF WITH A DRIVING BAN AND OTHER PEOPLE WHO NOT HAVE KILLED A PERSON WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DRIVE AGAIN BECAUSE THEY CAN’T PAY THE BILL
LANGLEY (NEWS1130) – A family in Langley is hoping the hit and run driver who killed 13-year-old Carley Regan six years ago will not get his license back early.
Paul Wettlaufer will be in Surrey Court Monday to make an application to overturn his 10 year driving ban.
Carley’s aunt Christine Quigley says the family is furious. “I didn’t even know this was possible, that you could even apply to have it [his license] returned.”
Wettlaufer didn’t have a license when he mowed down Carley her sister and her friend; she says Carley’s mom Evie is now reliving what happened. “He hit the children, drove down the road, turned around came back got out of his car, smoking a cigarette, looked at her laying there with blood coming out of her mouth. He then got back in his car and drove away with a flat tire. Is this someone who is remorseful?” Quigley says they see Wettlaufer in town all the time, he’s never said he’s sorry.
The judge may make a decision on Monday or delay it to consider submissions.
July 31, 2009 at 10:32 am
Bottom line story after story I here nothing ,but bad stories from the people we pay our taxes to,and what they do to us ,as well as others.they want to power trip you and punish you.One month ago I went to renew my license in order to get back to work.they took my right to drive class 3 away because I was on medication ,which I understand.So when I went through a road block I found they canceled my whole license Not just my class three.So fine and dandy I went down there to see about getting my class 5 reinstated so I can get back to work.I told them that I owed them money ,and had to get to work,because bills were piling up.they said don,t worry get your medical forms done come back with 31.00 and we will down grade your license.So after seeing my doctor finding employment getting glasses which took a month i went back to get my license,but this time every thing changed Not only did they rescind there decision about giving me my right to drive back they wanted there money or else.there was no bending with them.My new job is now in jeopardy ,and there no further to getting there money.They would not make a payment with me they want me to pull it out of my ass right there on the spot.I was straight up with them from the start I had been on disability for some time and want to get back to work they seem to think your living high on the hog or something.I just want to know if this is how a corporation that we have to deal with deserves to take our right to repair our lives away from us.If I want to appeal it’s 50.00 and 3 months for a reply,so just more fees to go into there already deep pocket,and the only people not complaining are the people who work for them.
August 12, 2009 at 11:09 am
Hi, I just went through the whole business with ICBC. Driver’s license suspension, driver training program, all their hoops. I did them gladly because I screwed up (drinking & driving) and I thought that I should take responsibility. I also have been paying them $50 a month under the illusion that I would be able to get my license back after completing all there requirements. Not so. While the amount I owe is less than $10,000. It is still too much for me. I could step up payments but I need a license to be able to work in the rural comunity that I live in. Really a Catch 22. I need a job to be able to pay them and I need a license to get a job BUT I need to pay them through money I can only get by working. Perfect Catch 22. Any advice? How about personal banrupcy?
August 12, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Hey there Hobo…..
On an amount of less than $10,000 I guess it would depend with the whole bankruptcy situation. Even if you go bankrupt on the money that is owed it will still be another 5 or so years before it will be cleared off your record and that still is no guarantee that ICBC will reinstate your driver’s license. You definitely should contact your local MLA and push him or her to fight for you to be able to get your license back. Don’t feel ashamed to contact them….. they are there to stand up for our rights and they can really do ALOT when it comes to dealing with any type of government agency or large corporation.
You were suspended for a period of time and have served that time and now they refuse to reinstate your license? I really wonder in my situation if the same is going to happen to me. I never got my license suspended…. but I wonder if when the time comes to re-issue and I have been making monthly payments, every month, on time, every time… that they will jsut be jerks and say “NO”.
With the personal bankruptcy, it will affect your entire credit rating. So I guess it all depends on what your credit rating is like? Do yo own a house? Do you want to with in the next 5 years? Do you have credit cards? Do you have loans? OR…. is it shot, like mine was a few years back and it really wouldn’t make a difference anyway?
Either way I think that personal bankruptcy is a big decision to make. My common law husband filed for bankruptcy a few years before I met him and it made things a little hard for us now, trying to get the things that we want in life. You know what I mean????